<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi, Im cutting a little bit this or it will be longer as the bible is. <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:20140703085403.GK43103@Space.Net" type="cite"> And this is different for you as compared to a big Cable ISP exactly why? Everybody who is growing his IPv4 network is facing the same challenges, as there are no more IPv4 addresses to sustain the demand. So yes, if these are the requirements, you will need to do logging of NAT pool mappings, and depending on the amount of customers you have, some pretty expensive storage to hold the data... (things like A+P / MAP help here, because you're not randomly masquerading customer IPs, but it will be done by block). Be assured, for a telco with a million customers, this will not be easier or cheaper than for an ISP with 10.000 </blockquote> I dont know the legal things of other countrys, I dont even know everything for our country. Logging the NAT pool map could not be the solution. Again, the court dont sais what was doing, just say an IP and a Date, and for example, if court sais: Hey, tell me who was using this IP in this date/hour. The IP was scamming on Facebook. The logs will show like 75% of customers sharing the same IP were using facebook in that moment. There is also another legal problem. I'll try to inform but I think at this moment here is illegal to sniff and save our customers connections. If i dont remember bad, you can sniff but only in realtime, just to see what is happening at the moment on your network. <blockquote cite="mid:20140703085403.GK43103@Space.Net" type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">At this moment, Im sure there are LIRs with a /22 who only need a /24 and LIRs with a /22 who need more. If the proposal to remove the minimum allocation of /22 goes well, maybe something can be done about this. - New LIRs recieving a first allocation of /23 or /24? (And you can say; This will f**k the routing table. But /24 announces already happens) - New LIRs can ask for more allocations but in stacks of /24 up to a total of /21? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Yes, this will f**k the routing table. If we go there, and next thing you find that ISPs are unwilling to accept these /24s, because their routers' TCAM is full, who are you going to complain to?</pre> </blockquote> But there is actually /24's announces everywhere, Do you think it will mess up the table more than it is now? <blockquote cite="mid:20140703085403.GK43103@Space.Net" type="cite"> <pre wrap=""> [..] </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Maybe and for the future, we should start talking about what should IANA do about legacy allocations not in use. Maybe forcing them to return space if they dont use/dont want it anymore instead of giving the chance to sell it. Dont know, Im really new to the world of RIRs/LIRs so Im sure you will know more about this than me. This could have been discussed before, dont know. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> The only way to *solve* this is to go to IPv6. Everything else is just investing into a dead technology, and drawing out the pains.</pre> </blockquote> I'm totally with you. Totally dude. Im an IPv6 fanboy. But that doesnt mean to dont try to have a solution for today. (<-- I dont know if I said it well) One of the requirements I said for having more allocation than /22 from RIPE was exactly that. Not only having an IPv6 allocation, not only having that allocation (or a chunk) announced. I said to have it in really production. From core network to customer cpe when supported, Dual-Stacking them. As you said, investing in IPv4 is investing into a dead technology. We dont want to spend lots of money and work in a dead technology. We spend money on new hardware that supports IPv6 and time doing it work. Best Regards, <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Daniel Baeza Centro de Observación de Red Dpto. Internet y Telefonía Television Costa Blanca S.L. 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