<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi, Please, again, sorry if my words in english are rude. Sometimes its hard to me to express what i want to say and to read what you want to say. I apologies if anyone here feel insulted by me. As I understood, he said no, he said nobody wants it when at this time, only 6 ppl replied the thread. He expect not to come this proposal so is knocking it down before I made it. I just want to know if he is doing market with IP space (not an insult) or if he have enough space to dont care about our problem (not an insult). Maybe I could sound rude, but again, its not my intention to sound rude or being an asshole. As you said, this is not about LIR or how big is your company so I have the same right to express our concerns and a non-really-expensive way to solve them. I want to make it the better for everyone, actual LIRs and future ones, but when you have enough space you cant be objetive. At this point, again, Im very sorry if anyone feel insulted by my words. I only want to make consensous about the possibility of giving more space to new lirs who only have a /22 and have made their job implementing and deploying IPv6 to their network. And im talking about real work, not only having an allocation and announcing it on bgp. I do really care about what community think about it, always in a good way and being open-mind, trying to see the position of the new/unexperienced new as I try to take the position of the old and experienced ones. Also, you can say -hey, we did few years ago a policy, what is done is done- but, anything but dead can be undone or Now, another not-an-insult question. Are you doing CGNAT or another mechanism to save v4 space? Do you have enough space for sell or simple enough to dont bother about ppl who dont have enough and are in trouble? What I want to know is if there is anyone who only have a /22 and are ok with not recieving (even if there are) more allocations (unknow prefix) only for if in 10-15 years IPv6 isnt globally deployed. Kind Regards, <div class="moz-cite-prefix">El 02/07/2014 19:02, Sander Steffann escribió: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:2971F87D-A3D3-4329-9541-6F94DAFBE9E9@steffann.nl" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hi Daniel, </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">At this point, it's clear that consensus will not be reached. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Wow, 4 persons from 10k+ LIRs said no and it's clear...amazing. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Being an LIR or not and the size of the company (if any) doesn't matter here. All discussions here are between persons, not between companies or their employees. So far you have shown that new LIRs are short on IPv4 space. Well known fact :) You haven't shown how we can make that less painful without endangering the long-term stability. </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">As you still seem to be determined, you are free to create a proposal like "any LIR which reaches five stars and has only one single /22 will get one additional /x", but I expect it to not come to fruition. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Why not? Are you selling IP Space so you dont want that policy going up? Or you just have enough IP space so dont really care about the rest of the LIRs? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> Please don't start insulting people that offer you honest advice, even if you don't want to hear it. If you want to change anything then you really are free to submit a policy proposal, but be prepared to explain/defend your proposal to those on this list that don't agree with you without insulting people or calling other peoples opinions ridiculous. As I have asked you some time ago: when thinking about a policy proposal about these last IPv4 addresses you have to think about all the aspects: future developments, fairness, scalability, routing table size etc. Do the math. Ask people who are experienced in this field and be willing to learn and see things from different points of view. Policy making is hard and just stating that the current policy is ridiculous and that small LIRs should just get more address space is not going to get you consensus. Cheers, Sander </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Daniel Baeza Centro de Observación de Red Dpto. Internet y Telefonía Television Costa Blanca S.L. 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