[address-policy-wg] IPv4 status hierarchies

Dear Denis,

Since the workaround you mention creates entries in the database that do not match in some cases the reality of what has been done (and allowed by the policy), especially during the ALLOCATED-UNSPECIFIED cleanup period, I support the change you mention.

Best regards

Stéphane Dodeller
Swisscom (ch.unisource)

Le 05.10.20 16:48, « address-policy-wg au nom de address-policy-wg-request at ripe.net » <address-policy-wg-bounces at ripe.net au nom de address-policy-wg-request at ripe.net> a écrit :
    Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2020 14:45:44 +0000 (UTC)
    From: "ripedenis at yahoo.co.uk" <ripedenis at yahoo.co.uk>
    To: "address-policy-wg at ripe.net" <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>,  Erik
    	Bais <ebais at a2b-internet.com>
    Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] IPv4 status hierarchies
    Message-ID: <1260079472.3251832.1601909144595 at mail.yahoo.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

     Colleagues
    I was about to post this to the DB-WG but it may be more appropriate to include it as part of this discussion...
    Yet another 4 year old NWI that needs to be progressed or closed. The details are here:https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fripe%2Fmail%2Farchives%2Fdb-wg%2F2016-May%2F005242.html&data=02%7C01%7CStephane.Dodeller%40swisscom.com%7C1824b65a8425487661aa08d8693dc293%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637375061263396078&sdata=nZJ18TdMGru4ajgL4qPbmyElMXw%2Fc%2FynnCNpPu2Rp9g%3D&reserved=0
    In summary it concerns the assignment of a whole allocation. Because the range is the primary key (pkey) in the database you cannot have an allocation object and an assignment object with the same pkey. A common work around is to split the allocation and make two assignments. The suggestion is to allow "status:" to be a multiple attribute.
    This could be done quite easily and constrained in it's use by business rules in the database software. So the syntax could be changed in INET(6)NUM objects to:status:? ? ? ? ?[mandatory]? [multiple]? ? ?[ ]
    The business rules could make this multiple option only allowed in very limited situations. For example if an INETNUM object has 'status: ALLOCATED PA' it could be possible to add a second value 'status: ASSIGNED PA' or 'status: SUB-ALLLOCATED PA'. If the status in an INET6NUM object is 'status: ALLOCATED-BY-RIR' it could be possible to add a second value 'status: ALLOCATED-BY-LIR' or 'status: ASSIGNED'. The business rules could prevent any other multiple status values.
    The "descr:" attribute is already multiple so it can describe both the allocation and the assignment.
    Is this still considered to be an issue?
    cheersdenis
    co-chair DB-WG

        On Monday, 5 October 2020, 16:13:53 CEST, Erik Bais <ebais at a2b-internet.com> wrote:  

     Dear WG,? 

    I want to bring the following email and questions of our PDO - Petrit Hasani to your attention that might have slipped over the vacation period.? 

    Please have a look at this discussion again and provide input if you can.? 

    Regards,
    Erik Bais
    Co-chair AP-WG. ( on behalf of the AP-WG Chair collective ) 

    ?On 02/07/2020, 13:36, "address-policy-wg on behalf of Petrit Hasani" <address-policy-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of phasani at ripe.net> wrote:

    ? ? Dear colleagues,
    ? ? 
    ? ? Thank you to everyone who responded to our earlier questions on the intent of the policy regarding IPv4 status hierarchies.
    ? ? 
    ? ? While this was helpful, it would be great if we could have input from a wider group of people:
    ? ? 
    ? ? - Should inetnums with these statuses be allowed to be created inside one another?
    ? ? - Should there be a limit on the minimum size of a sub-allocation?
    ? ? - Do we need a policy update?
    ? ? 
    ? ? https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fripe%2Fmail%2Farchives%2Faddress-policy-wg%2F2020-June%2F013195.html&data=02%7C01%7CStephane.Dodeller%40swisscom.com%7C1824b65a8425487661aa08d8693dc293%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637375061263396078&sdata=5LGahksB3BwkFn0apTyFMGMg4tu4NSprj6AmdCpU0ek%3D&reserved=0
    ? ? 
    ? ? We look forward to hearing from you.
    ? ? 
    ? ? Cheers,
    ? ? --
    ? ? Petrit Hasani
    ? ? Policy Officer
    ? ? RIPE NCC
    ? ? 
    ? ? 
    ? ? 
    ? ? 
    ? ? 
    ? ? > On 16 Jun 2020, at 15:36, Petrit Hasani <phasani at ripe.net> wrote:
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > Dear colleagues,
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > We are reviewing IPv4 status hierarchies in the RIPE Database (looking at objects with the same status as their less-specifics).
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > Some cases are clear - "ASSIGNED PA" shouldn't be allowed under "ASSIGNED PA", for example. Other statuses might need a closer look and we would like guidance from this working group.
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > The RIPE Database does not currently have any limitations on creating inetnums that have the status "SUB-ALLOCATED PA" or "LIR-PARTITIONED PA" under inetnums with the same status. This often results in chains of inetnums that have the same status, sometimes ending with the sub-allocation of a single IP address.
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > Although this might not seem useful at first glance, there might be practical uses for a few levels of sub-allocation. For example, a global company could give sub-allocations to its national branches, which make smaller sub-allocations to their multiple daughter companies. These daughter companies could then create and maintain assignments for their actual networks.
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > However, this is not allowed under a strict reading of the policy, as only the LIR itself can make sub-allocations, and these must be used for assignments.
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > Section 5.3 "Sub-allocations" of the IPv4 Address Allocation and Assignment Policies (ripe-733) states:
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > "Sub-allocations are intended to aid the goal of routing aggregation and can only be made from allocations with a status of "ALLOCATED PA".
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > [...]
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > LIRs may make sub-allocations to multiple downstream network operators."
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fpublications%2Fdocs%2Fripe-733%2354&data=02%7C01%7CStephane.Dodeller%40swisscom.com%7C1824b65a8425487661aa08d8693dc293%7C364e5b87c1c7420d9beec35d19b557a1%7C1%7C0%7C637375061263396078&sdata=vCq4%2B%2B0el3rtQXcDOhrtqCCt2cqt9HzBoPui4fc0Lyc%3D&reserved=0
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > Before making any changes, we want to be sure that we understand the intent of the policy and what the community wants us to do. Thus, we would like to hear from the Address Policy Working Group:
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > - Should inetnums with these statuses be allowed to be created inside one another?
    ? ? > - Should there be a limit on the minimum size of a sub-allocation?
    ? ? > - Do we need a policy update?
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > We look forward to your guidance.
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > Kind regards,
    ? ? > --
    ? ? > Petrit Hasani
    ? ? > Policy Officer
    ? ? > RIPE NCC
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > 
    ? ? > 
    ? ? 
    ? ? 


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