[address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy)

Hi Gert,

thank you for your reply


Il 20/06/2016 10:00, Gert Doering ha scritto:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 05:02:50PM +0200, Riccardo Gori wrote:
>> Il 18/06/2016 14:49, Gert Doering ha scritto:
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 10:49:59PM +0200, Riccardo Gori wrote:
>>>> I am strongly against to every proposal that higher the disvlaantage to
>>>> already disvantaged new and future pyers (LIRs after 09/2012)
>>> This proposal actually will only disadvantage "young LIRs" if they want
>>> to do stuff with their /22 that is frowned upon by the community - namely,
>>> trade, instead of "use for
>> This would disvantage every LIR that received or will reiceve an
>> ad-normal PA allocation.
> You keep repeating this, which does not make it more true.
>
> Please explain how this proposal would affect a LIR that intends to use
> the /22 to number its customers (and/or its own infrastructure), and is not
> intending to sell off the address space as quickly as possible to make a
> quick profit.
Teorically not, but practically creates class-b LIRs. I am against 
speculators but I would not like discrimination between old and new LIRs.
I wouldn't like to be discriminated. You would like to be?
Let's choose that in the future only ALLOCATED-FINAL can be 
transferabble 'cause those allocation are for higher prospective of an 
IPv6 transition (we don't force IPv6 adoption) and old allocation can 
stay stuck there and unused so we can go 6 happier.

To be serius:
If you allow the creation of a category-b LIR I can't see positivity in 
it. A less capable LIR born invalid.
Suppose your business for some reason has lot of customers for exmaple 
'cause you grows dual stack and IPv6 is spreading.
You can sell it one piece, but can happen you can even sell only 
customers and infrastructure and the acquiring company has enough 
address space or simply not interested because working IPv6. You may 
want to transfer part of space to your new company just created to set 
up a new datacenter or just keep on with IPv6 transition consulting 
services.
You may even want transfer part of the space to companies that need it. 
Why shouldn't be possible?
This LIR did no speculation at all, actually did really a good job of 
moving customers IPv6 and growing a company.
Just reached the task that is not even more mentioned in IPv4 allocation 
policy today.
Where's the quick profit? years of work on IPv4/IPv6 transition with 
infrastructure costs, ip transit and so on?

>
>> Please leave the idea of ab-normal LIRs.
> This is not an "idea" but observed behaviour by a few bad actors.
We must find the way to hurt only the few bad actors not all new LIRs.
>
> [..]
>> Nobody protects new LIRs speculator stockpile /22 in a zero cost
>> company/person without network or assignements and black sell it the
>> same day it has been allocated
>> with a private contract registered elsewhere from RIPE database.
>> This policy is useless. Audit and control is useful, transparency is a
>> must we discussed it at last general
> This paragraph does not make sense.
>
> Yes, people can get a /22 and "black sell it", even with 2016-01 - but
> the risk for the buyer is much higher than getting a "white" /22 on the
> address market, because the seller has to keep open the LIR forever in
> this case - and if the LIR is ever closed, the /22 has to be returned to
> the RIPE NCC.   So why should a buyer take this risk?
Elvis gived later today an example of what's happening in ARIN about that.
I think we all would prefer transparency.
>
> Gert Doering
>          -- APWG chair
regards
Riccardo
-- 

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