[address-policy-wg] PA policy

Hi Nick,  

El 07/07/2015 a las 14:55, Nick Hilliard escribió:
> 1. LIRs can assign PA blocks for any reason at all since policy 2013-03 was accepted.

Well, the policy specifically states PA is to be sub-allocated or assigned to *downstream networks* of the LIR. 
https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-643#7
Doesn't this mean transit via the allocation holding LIR's network is a requirement? 

PI (though no longer distributed) space was/is for LIR independent routing, not PA. 

> From the point of view of LIR1, some LIRs run with this as a business model in order to prevent customers moving away. 
Not only to prevent customers moving away, but also to attain mountains of IPv4 PA allocations from the NCC (albeit before RIPE depletion) that are autonomous to the LIR's network - if the LIR even has a network! 


Daniel, 
Not talking about residential end users. Focusing on LIRs that assigns a PA block to a company from their allocation, but doesn't actually provide any service to that company. 
Is this breaking the aforementioned policy statement? 


Regards, 
James



-----Original Message-----
From: address-policy-wg [mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Baeza (Red y Sistemas TVT)
Sent: 07 July 2015 14:59
To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] PA policy

I thing he understand "end user" as a residential customer user.

But a residential customer user is not recieving the PA space, is the ISP of the customer who recieve it.

LIR is not ISP. You can be a LIR and not an ISP and vice versa.


El 07/07/2015 a las 14:55, Nick Hilliard escribió:
> On 07/07/2015 13:31, Kennedy, James wrote:
>> At the risk of sounding naïve, I have a question regarding the 
>> legitimate usage of PA address space. That is, what *type* of network 
>> or End User can it be assigned to.
>>
>> "LIRs are allocated Provider Aggregatable (PA) address space. They 
>> sub-allocate and assign this to *downstream networks*."
>> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-643#7
>>
>> To me this reads networks or End Users assigned PA space must receive 
>> transit from the LIR holding the parent allocation.
>>
>> Or can the LIR assign PA blocks to customers/companies that don't 
>> receive transit, or any other technical network service for that 
>> matter, from the LIR?
>
> There are two separate things going on here.
>
> 1. LIRs can assign PA blocks for any reason at all since policy 
> 2013-03 was accepted.
>
> 2. if an end user receives a PA block from LIR1 and then attempts to 
> route it out through a different network who operates LIR2, that's an 
> issue for the end user, LIR1 and LIR2 to resolve.  The RIPE NCC is not 
> the routing police and has no policy basis to intervene.
>
> Situation #2 is relatively common and becoming more so.
>
>  From an end user point of view, it's a pretty damned stupid thing to 
> do because if the end user terminates their business relationship with 
> LIR1, then they terminate any rights to use the address space they 
> received from LIR1.  This puts the them in the situation where their 
> business continuity depends on a contractual relationship with a single supplier.  Not clever.
>
>  From the point of view of LIR1, some LIRs run with this as a business 
> model in order to prevent customers moving away.
>
>  From the point of view of LIR2, this often ends up causing problems 
> between them, the end user and LIR1.
>
> Nick
>