[address-policy-wg] address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1

Hey guys:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03

under b. Arguments opposing the proposal, point 3, there is following
link, in which is not working.

http://www.ripe.net/mail/archives/address-policy-wg/2012-October/007258.html

Mind someone check it and help to fix it?


On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:15 PM,  <address-policy-wg-request at ripe.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Announcing address resources (Sebastian Wiesinger)
>    2. ripe-589 question (Raimundas Tuminauskas)
>    3. Re: ripe-589 question (Sander Steffann)
>    4. 2013-06 Policy Proposal Withdrawn (PA/PI  Unification IPv6
>       Address Space) (Marco Schmidt)
>    5. Re: 2013-03: Review Phase - New Proposal Description and
>       Impact Analysis Published (Gert Doering)
>    6. Re: 2013-03: Review Phase - New Proposal Description and
>       Impact Analysis Published (Richard Hartmann)
>    7. 2013-03 Last Call for Comments (Post Depletion    Adjustment of
>       Procedures to Match Policy Objectives,    and Clean-up of Obsolete
>       Policy Text) (Marco Schmidt)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:48:24 +0100
> From: Sebastian Wiesinger <ripe.address-policy-wg at ml.karotte.org>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Announcing address resources
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <20131125084824.GA25194 at danton.fire-world.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> * Nick Hilliard <nick at inex.ie> [2013-11-21 22:36]:
>> Apropos of, oh I don't know, the weather or the phase of the moon or
>> something, could someone point me to the RIPE policy which says that if
>> you're assigned address resources from the RIPE NCC, that they cannot be
>> announced from outside the RIPE NCC service region?
>
> Hi,
>
> the way I understood it is that the LIR company has to be in the RIPE
> region but where you announce your prefixes is your decision. I
> requested an AS&PA explicitly for announcement in asia without any
> problems.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Sebastian
>
> --
> GPG Key: 0x93A0B9CE (F4F6 B1A3 866B 26E9 450A  9D82 58A2 D94A 93A0 B9CE)
> 'Are you Death?' ... IT'S THE SCYTHE, ISN'T IT? PEOPLE ALWAYS NOTICE THE SCYTHE.
>             -- Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 05:57:33 +0200
> From: Raimundas Tuminauskas <raimis at litnet.lt>
> Subject: [address-policy-wg] ripe-589 question
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <20131129055733.18765g0w8kjb0hog at pastas.litnet.lt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed"
>
> Dear all,
>
> We've ran into internal conflict assigning IPv6 address space. Anyone
> caring to provide independent view on this would be much appreciated.
>
> Problem:
> LITNET (org: ORG-LA11-RIPE) has been comprised of two ASNs 2847 and 5479.
> Current IPv6 allocation is /29 (inet6num: 2001:778::/29).
> Current policy is to assign /32 per AS.
> Proposed new policy is to assign /30 per AS.
>
> Arguments for new policy:
> - RIPE-589 3.4 (Aggregation) and 3.8 (Conflict of goals)
>
> Arguments for current policy:
> - Two routes will be announced anyway. Different AS_PATH and routing
> policies, no aggregation.
> - /32 is 1200+ /64s per head of population of the country. Should be
> enough for any local AS for foreseeable future. Revise assignment
> planning if not.
> - The same address space allocation will be preserved for future AS if
> any current end-user (university) would require independent routing
> policies.
> - We will not get any wider allocation. Next address range (if it will
> happen) will be far off from 2001:778
>
> I'm not in favor of wasting a long-term resource like IPv6 and rather
> deviate from the policy, but maybe I'm missing a point here somewhere ?
> TIA
>
> sincerely,
>    Raimundas Tuminauskas
>    KTU ITD / LITNET NOC
>    Studentu 48a, Kaunas
>    51367, Lithuania
> phone: +370 37300033
> fax: +370 37300643
> email: raimis at litnet.lt
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 07:32:40 +0100
> From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] ripe-589 question
> To: Raimundas Tuminauskas <raimis at litnet.lt>
> Cc: "address-policy-wg at ripe.net Working Group"
>         <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
> Message-ID: <F664CA6C-673C-4CCE-A184-F351521F5649 at steffann.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
>> We've ran into internal conflict assigning IPv6 address space. Anyone caring to provide independent view on this would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Problem:
>> LITNET (org: ORG-LA11-RIPE) has been comprised of two ASNs 2847 and 5479.
>> Current IPv6 allocation is /29 (inet6num: 2001:778::/29).
>> Current policy is to assign /32 per AS.
>> Proposed new policy is to assign /30 per AS.
>>
>> Arguments for new policy:
>> - RIPE-589 3.4 (Aggregation) and 3.8 (Conflict of goals)
>>
>> Arguments for current policy:
>> - Two routes will be announced anyway. Different AS_PATH and routing policies, no aggregation.
>> - /32 is 1200+ /64s per head of population of the country. Should be enough for any local AS for foreseeable future. Revise assignment planning if not.
>
> I wouldn't count separate /64s as that will give you a distorted number. Count using the assignment size you are using, which I assume is a /48 per customer/university/research-institution/etc. That gives you a maximum of 65536 per /32. In a country with a population of 3 million that is probably enough to number all your customers :-)
>
>> - The same address space allocation will be preserved for future AS if any current end-user (university) would require independent routing policies.
>> - We will not get any wider allocation. Next address range (if it will happen) will be far off from 2001:778
>
> So why don't you announce 2001:778::/32 from one AS and 2001:77c::/32 from the other? If you need more space in one AS then you can grow to a /31 or /30, and if you don't need to grow them then you might, if at some point in the future you need a separate routing policy, announce the remaining space from a separate AS.
>
>> I'm not in favor of wasting a long-term resource like IPv6 and rather deviate from the policy, but maybe I'm missing a point here somewhere ?
>
> Well, you can get the /29, and nobody else is going to get it, so you might as well make the best use of it. I just asked the NCC to expand my /32 to a /29. I use the first /32 for a LISP-based ISP setup, and I'm going to use one or more separate /32s for training purposes for ISPs. The nice thing about IPv6 is that we can always get enough space for what we need (within limits of course ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 15:07:24 +0100
> From: "Marco Schmidt" <mschmidt at ripe.net>
> Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2013-06 Policy Proposal Withdrawn (PA/PI
>         Unification IPv6 Address Space)
> To: policy-announce at ripe.net
> Cc: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <mailman.469.1386335706.3566.address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
> The proposal 2013-06, "PA/PI Unification IPv6 Address Space" has been withdrawn.
>
>
> It is now archived and can be found at:
>
>     https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-06
>
>
> Reason for withdrawal: During the Discussion Phase it became clear that the RIPE
> community did not see the need for such a complex change. As a result, the
> proposers decided to withdraw the proposal.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Marco Schmidt
> Policy Development Office
> RIPE NCC
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 19:31:21 +0100
> From: Gert Doering <gert at space.net>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03: Review Phase - New Proposal
>         Description and Impact Analysis Published
> To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <20131205183121.GA54642 at Space.Net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear AP WG,
>
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 11:01:24AM +0100, Marco Schmidt wrote:
> [..]
>> We encourage you to read the proposal and the impact analysis and send any
>> comments to <address-policy-wg at ripe.net> before 5 December 2013.
>
> the review phase for 2013-03 has ended today.  No comments were received,
> thus I consider all opinions expressed in the previous review phase to be
> unchanged (as announced, given that the policy *text* has not changed
> at all) - that is, 32 persons expressing support of the proposal, 3 persons
> opposing it.
>
> Given the amount of support, and the nature of the opposition, the WG
> chairs have decided that we have reached rough consensus.  We think that
> all counterarguments brought up by the opposers have been fully answered -
> this might not be sufficient to convince the opposers to change their mind,
> but given sufficient support otherwise, it's good enough to move forward.
>
> This is what we'll do now -> move 2013-03 to Last Call.  Marco will send
> the formal announcement for that later today or tomorrow.
>
> For reference, a list of people that voiced support or opposition (or
> something else) in the previous review phase is appended below.  This is
> what the chairs based their decision on.
>
> If you disagree with our interpretation of what has been said, and the
> conclusion we have drawn from it, please let us know.
>
> Gert Doering,
>         Address Policy WG Chair
>
>
> support:
>     Mikael Abrahamsson
>     Randy Bush
>     Daniel Stolpe
>     Dimitri I Sidelnikov
>     Andy Davidson
>     Sascha Luck
>     Jan Zorz
>     Bengt G?rd?n
>     Raluca Andreea Gogiou
>     Roger J?rgensen
>     Richard Hartmann  (strong sentiments that this is the last round)
>     Andreas Larsen
>     Jan Ingvoldstad   (strong sentiments that this is the last round)
>     Elvis Daniel Velea
>     Nigel Titley      (seconding Richard's sentiments)
>     Gerry Demaret
>     Sebastian Wiesinger
>     Lu Heng
>     Sonderegger Olaf
>     Ian Johannesen
>     Fredrik Widell
>     Alexey Ivanov
>     Sandra Brown
>     Donal Cunningham
>     Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
>     Mike Burns
>     George Giannousopoulos
>     Ragnar Anfinsen
>     Milton L Mueller
>     Ronny Boesger
>     Dominik Bay
>     Lutz Donnerhacke
>
> support, based on changes to the external PR regarding 2013-03, and
>          some future PDP tasks for the chairs and the community
>     Malcolm Hutty  (see <52406426.8080405 at linx.net> for details)
>
> neutral (mailing to the thread, but not expressing support/opposition):
>     CJ Aronson
>     Nick Hilliard
>     Hans Petter Holen
>     John Curran
>
>
> opposing:
>     McTim
>        "I don't think shifting to a market based allocation/assignment system
>        is good stewardship.  In addition there are multiple issues listed in
>        the Impact Analysis that cause me great concern.  The primary issue
>        there is incompatibility with other regional transfer policies."
>
>        considered to be completely answered by the chairs, on the basis
>        that 2013-03 does not introduce a transfer market, documenting the
>        goal to assign to end users was introduced in v3 of the proposal,
>        and incompatibilities with other regions' transfer policies can be
>        amended by adding appropriate checks to our cross-RIR-policy-to-be,
>        if the community ever expresses enough interest to make one (which
>        currently does not seem to be the case).
>
>        Also, most other issues raised in the IA have been addressed by v4
>        of the proposal, which changed the title and rationale to send a
>        less controversial message to external parties.  So we consider this
>        to be addressed as well.
>
>     Filiz Yilmaz
>        would support if criteria for allocation would be amended to include
>        "LIR must demonstrate its need for the IPv4 address space"
>
>        This was carefully listened to, and discussed with NCC RS to see
>        what the impact would be.  NCC RS stated that the addition of this
>        sentence would not change their interpretation of the policy, given
>        that all the LIR can do to demonstrate it's need is the willingness
>        to make an assignment from it - and that is already there.
>
>        Based on this and based on the significant number of people asking for
>        the proposal to go forward and not do another round of textual change
>        and impact analysis, the chairs decided to consider this point
>        answered, and go forward.
>
>     Sylvain Vallerot
>        main issue seems to be that this proposal would bring LIR admins
>        under pressure from unreasonable customer demands and that could
>        create very problematic situations inside the LIR, without being
>        able to point to RIR policies to back not giving out addresses.
>
>        considered to be answered by the proposer, as there is pressure
>        inside all LIRs anyway, and even with the old formalism in place,
>        a LIR might very well run into the same situation of having to deny
>        addresses to some of it's customer as there are just not enough left
>        anymore to give all of them what they ask for.
>
>     David Farmer
>        initially "-1"'ing, then clarifying this to be more on the discussion
>        between Sylvain and Tore, and explicitely stating neutrality on the
>        proposal itself
> --
> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>
> SpaceNet AG                        Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14          Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
> D-80807 Muenchen                   HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444           USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 21:33:26 +0100
> From: Richard Hartmann <richih.mailinglist at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03: Review Phase - New Proposal
>         Description and Impact Analysis Published
> To: Gert Doering <gert at space.net>
> Cc: Address Policy Working Group <address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
> Message-ID:
>         <CAD77+gQ=YxNC3fv87v_xd2+iGQiQr631+FonMSBj5a103OEZPA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Dear chair,
>
> thanks for your work; tracking this behemoth of a discussion must be a
> lot of fun!
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 14:13:31 +0100
> From: "Marco Schmidt" <mschmidt at ripe.net>
> Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2013-03 Last Call for Comments (Post
>         Depletion       Adjustment of Procedures to Match Policy Objectives,    and
>         Clean-up of Obsolete Policy Text)
> To: policy-announce at ripe.net
> Cc: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> Message-ID: <mailman.470.1386335706.3566.address-policy-wg at ripe.net>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
> The proposal described in 2013-03, "Post Depletion Adjustment of Procedures
> to Match Policy Objectives, and Clean-up of Obsolete Policy Text", is now
> in its Concluding Phase.
>
> The Address Policy Working Group co-Chairs have declared that consensus for
> the proposal has been reached and it will now move to Last Call.
>
> As per the RIPE Policy Development Process (PDP), the purpose of these
> coming four weeks of Last Call is to give the community the opportunity
> to present well-justified objections in case anyone missed the previous
> two phases and want to oppose the proposal.
>
> Any objection must be made by 6 January 2014 and must be supported by an
> explanation.
>
> If no substantive objections are raised by the end of Last Call, the
> proposal will complete the PDP and will be evaluated by the co-Chairs of
> all RIPE Working Groups for consensus.
>
> You can find the full proposal at:
>
>     https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2013-03
>
> Please e-mail any final comments about this proposal to address-policy-wg at ripe.net
> before 6 January 2014.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Marco Schmidt
> Policy Development Office
> RIPE NCC
>
>
>
>
> End of address-policy-wg Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
> ************************************************



-- 
--
Kind regards.
Lu

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