[address-policy-wg] layer 10+ issues with 2008-08

On 8 May 2011, at 12:28, Rob Evans wrote:

> If "law enforcement" mandates the NCC to withdraw an allocation,  
> could it also not mandate that the NCC originates a competing route  
> with a valid ROA that will "trump" the now-invalid ROA?  Is this  
> necessarily a problem?  By the time it gets to that stage won't the  
> legal system have performed sufficient due process that it believes  
> this is the right way to go?

Rob, I think this is an interesting but probably irrelevant question.  
The NCC would almost definitely be in contempt of court -- ie jail  
time for Axel and the Board -- if it issued some kind of alternate  
certificate after being given a court order to revoke one.

However since Sander said the lawyer says there's no way the Dutch  
courts could issue such a court order, this seems to be unrealistic  
unless there's new legislation. Though I wonder about the EU dimension  
here. Perhaps a court order in one EU state can be enforced in another  
along the lines of the European Arrest Warrant? I'm thinking here  
about forum shopping, eg something comparable to starting libel  
actions in the very accommodating English courts because of the stupid  
laws they have.

> I value Malcolm's opinion greatly, and when he is this concerned  
> about a proposal it scares me, it scares me a lot

Same here.

Since none of us here are lawyers (thankfully), I think the next stage  
will be to get relevant legal advice and have it published on the  
list. Perhaps the WG could help to compose the questions or scenarios  
for the lawyer to consider. In light of Malcolm's comments, we should  
go carefully here. The PDP allows for an impact assessment. The  
current state of this proposal is why it's there. I would hope too  
that the NCC Board formally approves implementation of this policy if/ 
when we reach that point.

I am not worried about the RPKI being used as a vector for takedown  
requests by law enforcement or others. I am worried about more  
informal situations. What does the NCC do when the cops knock on the  
door and say "We don't have a court order and *really* want you to  
revoke this cert. Please co-operate."? And although I mentioned law  
enforcement, there may well be others who would wish to push those  
boundaries.