[address-policy-wg] the cost of PI space

Hallo Denesh,
du schrobst:
> On 15 April 2011 13:22, Immo 'FaUl' Wehrenberg <immo.ripe at be.free.de> wrote:
> > I am working for such a non profit organization voluntarely (as all
> > of our staff does) and I can assure you that fundraising money for
> > servers/routers is not easy for us. When it comes to periodic costs, it
> > is always a trade off between more bandwith/more servers (= increased
> > power costs) and other things (like address space, lir membership fees,
> > etc). So while most end users of independet ressources might not even
> > notice a shift from 50 euros per anno to 500 euros per anno, at least
> > for us that would make things seriously more difficult. After all, thats
> > why we decided not to become a LIR (eventhough it would otherwise fit
> > better then usage of independend ressources).
> I take your point.. but I have to agree with Jim on this one.
> I have worked for various non-profit organisations and also understand the
> financial pressures one is under. However non-profit or not-for-profit does
> not mean, for all intents and purposes, that it should spend aim to spend
> more than it can afford.

Indeed not. From my perspective, it should spend exactly as much money as
it can afford and to the benefit of the goals it stand for. 

> Regardless of whether an organisation is for-profit or non-profit, it is a
> business and must be run like one. Just look at the many charities out there
> that also run like businesses... and non-profit does not mean it can not
> make a profit.. just that it has to work on profit-loss neutrality.. and
> ensure it's costs are met.
> 
> My biggest bugbear in some non-profits I have worked in was that the 'real'
> costs were swept under the carpet... Taking it to it's conclusion, if every
> volunteer in the organisation was to be paid and all costs were considered,
> what would be the real cost of running the organisation? 

Thats simple. To much. That holds for big non-profit organizations like the
Red Cross as well as for small one like the one I work for. I think the point
in running such an organization is that it is not to be run like an business,
just trying to make as much money as possible, but instead trying to generate
as most benifit to the community as possible with the given, limited 
ressources. Obviously, in that case, reducing the real cost is as important
as increasing donations. 

> > Supporting (under-funded) public benefit organisations is all well and
> > > good. But is it fair to expect the NCC membership to pick up the bill?
> > What bill exactly? I don't see much costs generated by users of
> > independent ressources.
> You mention you are a volunteer in a non-profit organisation. I honestly
> salute you. However, if you were to charge for your time, how much would the
> organisation have to pay you?

More than it could afford. That also holds for our other volunteers.

> In the same way, whatever resource is being used via RIPE, is a cost to the
> NCC and that needs to be paid somehow. 

I still don't see that. It is a cost to run the NCC, surely. And indeed this 
cost increases with the number of ressources in use. Without being into 
finances of Ripe NCC i'd assume that the anual 50 euros per ressource should
cover the costs generated by the asignment. CMIIW!

Still, PI crowd is supporting their LIR to the usually contracted 
maintainence fee added to the ressources. 

regards, 
Immo

Ps: i think we get more and more of topic here, is that ok for this list
or should we stop here?
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