[address-policy-wg] Millions of Internet Addresses AreLyingIdle

Shane and all,

  Again my response/remarks are interspersed below...

Shane Kerr wrote:

> Jeffrey,
>
> On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 03:54 -0700, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Reclaiming unused IPv4 space is very expensive. The RIR system was never
> > > designed with reclamation in mind, and fear or selfishness on the part
> > > of existing participants has prevented even small moves towards fixing
> > > this (see discussions of 2007-01 for more insight).
> >
> >   Sorry I don't except you premise that reclaiming unused IPv4 space is very
> > expensive.
>
> The current work for allocating IPv4 space is:
>
>       * Verify requester needs space
>       * Search the available list for space
>
> To reclaim space, one must do something like:
>
>       * Find space one thinks might be available
>       * Figure out the contact for the space
>       * Request the space from said contact
>       * Handle cases where contact is unavailable or uncooperative
>       * "Decontaminate" space for a while (optional but recommended)
>       * Put space on the available list
>
> Someone has to do all of these tasks, and the timelines can be quite
> long. I am *not* saying it is impossible, only that it is a lot more
> work than what we have today. And that work is what will make it
> expensive.

  Much of the first two on your list are mostly already known.  The forth
is easy to handle, expose those that are not cooperating, and deny
then further address space, even IPv6 unless or until they do cooperate.
These measures cost very little.  I have no idea what the fifth in your
list costs, but seems to me it would also be very little.

>
>
> > > The
> > > idea of a market may help to lower these costs (or not), but the costs
> > > will still be there. Any time you see a change in a fundamental resource
> > > after decades of relatively low cost, there will be economic upset(*).
> >
> > I agree very generally with your last sentence here.  Not your first,
> > however.  Any "Market" where IP address space is auctioned off
> > like a comodity will early on sore in price, than maybe later graduate
> > down or flatten out.  But this depends if the "Market" is regulated or
> > not, and if so, how it is regulated, whom is the regulator, and how
> > diligent that or those regulators are to adhering to the yet to be
> > determined regulations by which that "Market" operates under.
>
> I do not believe a market will actually solve the shortage problem.

  Ok good, thanks for the clarification.  I agree that a "Market"
will not solve the problem, and in fact stands a better chance of
making the problem worse in some ways.

>
>
> I do believe there already is a market, and it is better to record who
> is responsible for addresses rather than make an even bigger mess than
> the current system.

Perhaps but this will not reclaim the vast majority of the unused IPv4
space.  Secondly a black market already exists and will flourish if
not delt with strictly.  Black markets have no regulator, but do have
plenty of customers.  Ergo the market your seem to suggest will be
token at best as it is mainly based on good will.  Good will doesn't
buy much these days...

>
>
> --
> shane

Regards,

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