[address-policy-wg] 2007-01 Last Call for Comments (Direct Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC)

Frederic wrote:
[..]
> You keep eu.org but you do not talk about .st and .nf.

Actually I ignore eu.org completely, as it is just a subdomain and 
talked mostly about the rest. There are several, probably thousands, of 
such domains where you can get a subdomain for free. All without a 
requirement to pay or any contract, except their rules.

Anyone remember ml.org? Indeed, they don't exist anymore either.
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=ml.org still has a small recording 
about this.

> and eu.org was
> made because you do not have choice today with domain. and that why i do
> not want the same thing for IP.

As you are so persistent in your analogy and don't seem to get the point 
where your analogy is wrong, lets try another way:

There is a *FREE* way for you to get an IPv6 block, just get a tunnel 
from one of the several IPv6 Tunnel Brokers out there.

They will provide you, for free, one or even multiple /48's to your 
site. You are free to use them, though under the conditions they set, 
just like your 'eu.org' and 'nf' 'st' etc domains. They also take care 
of the routing, the transit and everything, all for free.

The trick is, you can't/should not announce that /48 into BGP though, as 
that is their conditions. Also you do not have any rights whatsoever for 
that /48, it can go any time you want.

Because of them handling the routing, and them deciding you can keep the 
domain^Wsubnet, you are dependent, just like DNS, on them and their 
service to keep on existing and providing it to you.

If you want something for free, the conditions are also free, anything 
can happen.

If you have a contract though, that contract defines what can happen.

> and like i said many time, is all the freedom to have other thing
> possible that the main stream.

The above example 'preserves' your freedom, though it locks you in, just 
like those TLD's and eu.org to their rules. You are btw absolutely not 
independent with those domains, you are fully dependent on what they 
decide to do with their domain and if they even keep it running or allow 
you to use it. There is no contact thus no guarantees, if you have a 
contract you have something to come back at.

Maybe you should start to understand that IP are not domain names.

>> As for the whining about any fees at all, those fees are nothing 
>> compared to the hardware and transit costs you will have, especially 
>> when you will need to buy a really big new router when a lot of sites 
>> get PI, or do you expect all of that for free too? (if the answer is 
>> yes, then ask the people who sponsor those things to also sponsor the 
>> little bit of cash for the prefix)
>>
> 
> False. LIR FEES is huge for a non profit company with vulunteer.

Get better sponsors for your project, or just fit in with what everybody 
else does. If your project is not that important to get good enough 
sponsors you do not need to have PI either.

> and
> hardware and place in the internet are today not expensive. And when
> that was expensive you had not money for only administartive purpose.

As mentioned, if/when routing tables explode, your cheap hardware won't 
work anymore as it all has to be replaced. You will the first one to be 
then cut off that nice Internet. Does PI help then? You still won't have 
the money to actually connect to it and actually use it.


What exactly are the requirements for which you require PI anyway?
As you don't seem to be able to understand the difference between domain 
names and IP addresses, maybe you are just misinformed and you should be 
consulted so that you understand the other possibilities that you have 
for solving your problem.

> Main stream of the internet is commercial but today you have the
> possibility to do not follow this main stream.
> 
> tomorrow is not possible because you have contract.

That is called evolution.

2000 years ago you could have occupied the US yourself and made yourself 
president. Now everything is owned by somebody else.

Change happens. Either you go along, or you stick to your little rock.

> Internet still works and works with gentlement agreement, and anyway you
> can hijack youtube's PA with the LIR status....

I would say: go for it.

It doesn't take long for you to disappear from the Internet then. A lot 
of people don't like other people messing with their networks.

Greets,
  Jeroen

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