[address-policy-wg] Re: [Nro-comments] Some comments on the text (fwd)

FYI: Some further clearifications on the NRO proposal

-hph

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:59:51 +0200
From: Frode Greisen <frode at greisen.net>
To: sabine jaume <jaume at renater.fr>, nro-comments at apnic.net
Cc: Hans Petter Holen <hpholen at tiscali.no>,
     "Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet" <woeber at cc.univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Nro-comments] Some  comments on the text

Dear Sabine,

> On 14/10/03 8:39, "sabine jaume" <jaume at renater.fr> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> After reading the NRO proposal and the ASO MoU, here are some comments
> on the text, which to my opinion need clarification for better
> understanding and/or to avoid misunderstanding.
>
>
> NRO Proposal
>
> Chapter 1 :
> The creation of the NRO doesn't need ICANN's acceptance : as far as RIR
> sign the agreement it is considered in force. Did I understand it correctly?

yes, this is correct.

>
> The signature includes RIRs who are signatories : what about any new
> possible RIR? I would add here a reference to chapter 3 in case a new
> RIR wants to sign the agreement later on.

As you say, the intention is that new RIRs can join with equal rights.

As the text stands, Chapter 3 provides for the inclusion of new RIRs.  Just
as the situation exists today, the new RIR must meet objective criteria and
must sign the MoU.

>
> Chapter 2 :
> This description is fully in line with the operationnal business of RIRs.
>
> Chapter 4 :
> Here I find an inconsistency with chapter 2 : indeed if the NRO has an
> operationnal role, how can it also intervene in policy making processes.
> This is how I interpret the fact that the NRO Number Council is under
> the responsability of the NRO Exec Council (see chapter 6).

see comment below.

>
> Incorporation : under which law?

We felt no need to define law and location before a decision to incorporate.
This will be agreed by the RIR signatories at that time.

>
> Chapter 6 :
> Here is where policy-making process- and day to day busines of
> RIRs are mixed.
> What happens if the Number Council makes proposals
> following bottom up process which are rejected by the NRO (see comment
> on ASO MoU text)?

The Executive Council is responsible for external communication but in the
(probably most likely) scenario policy ratification is done by ICANN as
defined in the ASO MoU and the Executive Council will not make policy.

It is only in the stand-alond scenario after and ICANN failure that the
Executive council would in reality ratify or reject. The sense of the
document is that the Executive council would then act in the role of the
ICANN board as far as address policy ratification is concerned and would
only base its decision on whether due processes were followed or not. In
order to avoid duplication, all the relevant procedures defined in the ASO
MoU and its attachment are not also spelled out in the NRO document.

In the case of rejection, any dissatisfied party could resort to the appeals
process.

>
> Chapter 7 :
> Here the bottom up process should be described.
>

You may be right. In the scenario where the global policy process is defined
in an ASO MoU with ICANN that MoU defines the bottom up process.

>
> Aren't the ICANN board directors election the Number Council's duties
> any more?

The Address Council will select ICANN Board members as provided for in
the ICANN by-laws and the ASO MoU.  When the ASO MoU is agreed to
between the RIRs and ICANN, the Numbers Council will become the ASO
Address Council and will function under the provisions of the ASO MoU.

>
> What are the lenghts of each person's term? Can they be renewed?
> Can the 2 selected persons be RIR staffed persons?
>
Good questions.

Since there would probably be a transition from the present Address Council
to the Numbers Council a staggering would need to be defined but we felt it
would be better to have a basic agreement with ICANN and also seeking advice
from the present Address Council before getting into defining a system for
this. A reasonable assumption would be to get to three year terms like now.

RIR staff members may not be elected to either of the two elected seats.  An
RIR staff member may be appointed by theappropriate RIR Board to the one RIR
appointed positon from each region.

>
> Chapter 9  :
> How long will people seat on the Appeals Panel?
>
Experience from the RIPE NCC arbitration panel shows that the arbiters have
not been very busy. My personal preference would be to let the NRO ping the
selected representatives about annually, and keep them as long as they are
willing and and able and have the desired knowledge.

>
> Chapter 10 :
> In case of an abitration that takes long time : what will happen? Is
> there a kind of provision that says that during the time there is no
> decision, policies will be applied as they were before the dispute started?
>

Good point.
As usual, the appeals process is institued to seek agreement before a
part resorts to a lawsuit.  The pressure to avoid suits should be an
incentive for the appeals panel to act quickly, however, the circumstances
of each situation will dictate deadlines.  Therefore, a one size fits all
time is not suitable.

It may be worth considering, but perhaps difficult to decide in advance for
all cases, whether initiation of appeal should have holding effect on the
process in question.

>
> Chapter 11 :
> How is an RIR member defined?

This is an RIR signatory. Should probably be clarified in the text.

>
> What is the clause 12b?
>

Thanks for spotting this! This should say 1.2.

>
> Chapter 12 :
> What are those technical activities : could be a lots of things...
>
Yes, and as such they must be agreed by the Executive Council. Examples
could be mutual data-base backup between RIRs or global whois services.

>
> Chapter 13 :
> Will the RIR members (again to be defined) pay a fee directly to the
> NRO, or will this be done via the RIRs existing fundings?
>
Like above, RIR member in this chapter means NRO
signatory.  Since the NRO will not have a budget there will be no fees
paid to the NRO.  All expenditures will be agreed to by the Executive
Council.  The Secretariat will track the costs and invoice each RIR as
appropriate.

Just as is the situation today with regards to funds for the ICANN budget
and funds to support ASO and ASO AC activities, the RIRs include these
expenditures in their individual budgets.  In regard to the NRO and the new
ASO and and ASO AC we expect the same method of operation.  It is expected
that these expenditures will be similar to today's situation.

>
> What is paragraph "a" refering to?
>
Thanks! As above, letters were changed to numbers in bullet points, so this
should be paragraph 13.1.

>
> ASO MoU
>
> From the NRO document statements, the Address Council is under the
> responsablity of the NRO Exec council, and has RIR appointed members. So
> what does "in conjunction with the RIRs" means?
>
> Again the split between policy making process and operations is
> confused, because of the ASO AC being under the responsibility of the
> NRO. Indeed point 4 stresses that the RIRs Board do have a policy making
> role.
>

"In conjunction with the RIRs" means that both the Address Council and the
RIRs will work together.  While it is anticipated that most questions and
concerns of the RIRs can be dealt with by the RIR appointed members of the
Adress Council, there always exits the possibiliy that additional
information may have to be gathered by RIR staffs or the RIR Boards may need
to comment.

Thanks for your thoughtful questions and comments.

For further discussion you may also want to check
http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/regional/nro-faq.html

Frode Greisen
RIPE NCC Executive Board Member

>
> Looking forward to any clarification you can provide,
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best regards,